Biblical Concept: Why a lake of fire for eternal punishment?
Biblical Concept: Why is torment part of eternal punishment?
(Underlines are mine and parentheses are mine.)
Caveats[1]: The following paragraph is stated by a believer in Jesus Christ, not to question God (a foolish proposition), but stated with objective curiosity (hopefully). The following paragraph has been stated with the Biblical understanding that God is: just, righteous, fair, true, love, and holy.
A human is born: They have a sin nature, they lie some, they steal a little, they commit typical sexual sins, they are a little lazy, they are a little rebellious—a pretty typical unbeliever, if there is such a thing. They have God consciousness, but are not interested in the spiritual. They die at age of 75. As an unbeliever they will spend eternity in the lake of fire for failing to believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Does eternal punishment fit 75 years of sin and unbelief? Why a lake of fire for eternal punishment? Why is eternal suffering / torment necessary? Why not just some sort of eternal separation?
Answers (thoughts):
·Humanity is going to be used to resolve the Angelic Conflict, willing or not. No one asked to be born. Humans and angels have freewill, but God’s eternal plan will be accomplished.
·Humanities’ role in the Angelic Conflict is to believe and obey, not having seen God. To do anything else is to malfunction in a manner beyond our comprehension. God is going to glorify Himself in the Angelic Conflict, humans who learn to neglect/deny/hate God have totally volitionally malfunctioned in the Angelic Conflict and will have to deal with the holy/just/righteous God of the Bible Who created them.
·“No fear”?, fear God: NAS Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
·Why does the holiness/justice/righteousness of God demand eternal torment instead of an eternal sequester and separation? Perhaps we cannot understand the holiness of God and its demand for justice and righteousness? Fear the holy/just/righteous God of the Bible. Recall Adam and Eve, one act of disobedience lead to spiritual death—think Holy God. There are some Bible verses that suggest an eternal sequester is a significant portion of the punishment.
·There are several scriptures which suggest differing kinds of eternal punishment. Greater punishment for evil, or darkness for less evil?
·Some aspect of eternal punishment includes
darkness.
·Some fire and lake of fire passages contain a
metaphorical element.
·Some passages suggest eternal confinement is the punishment for fallen angels. How can an eternal spirit creature, an angel, be burned with fire? NAS Revelation 19:17a And I saw an angel standing in the sun . . .
··Because
“men loved the darkness rather than the
light”, they will prefer the fellowship of hell. Torment is necessary to balance satisfaction
with evil, even in hell.
··Again, why does the holiness of God demand eternal torment instead of an eternal sequester and separation? See the previous point. God is not going to deny the huge difference between a believing spiritually mature human and a God-hating unbeliever. The God-hating unbeliever is not going to enjoy an eternal sequester, with his kind, without the controlling/disciplining factor of eternal torment.
·Packer also comments, “We need, therefore, to remember that the key to interpreting the many biblical passages, often highly figurative, which picture the divine King and Judge as active against men in wrath and vengeance, is to realize that what God is hereby doing is no more than to ratify and confirm judgments which those whom He ‘visits’ have already passed on themselves by the course they have chosen to follow. This appears in the story of God’s first act of wrath towards man, in Genesis 3, where we learn that Adam had already chosen to hide from God, and keep clear of His presence, before ever God drove him from the garden; and the same principle applies throughout the Bible.” Packer, Knowing God, p. 139.
·The spiritually apathetic person, described in the previous paragraph, should be warned about the torment of eternal sequester with much figurative hyperbole, attempting to shake them from spiritual apathy. The torment of eternal sequester is not to be expressed lightly. Note Acts 2:24. Note the sanctified Divine deception in John 7:1-14.
··Volitional rebellion necessitates the torment of eternal sequester, lest there be war forever, even in the place of eternal sequester.
Vocabulary:
·NAS Revelation 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. (Humans “thrown alive” into a “lake of fire” would be vaporized quickly. What is happening here? See Robertson’s.)
NAS Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
NAS Revelation 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Fire
NAS Matthew 3:10 "And the axe is already laid at the root of
the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and
thrown into the fire.
NAS Matthew 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and
He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into
the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
NAS Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is
cut down and thrown into the fire.
NAS Matthew 13:40 "Therefore just as the tares are gathered up
and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
NAS Matthew 18:8 "And if your hand or your foot causes you to
stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life
crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal
fire.
·NAS Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left,
'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared
for the devil and his angels; (What is
fire to an angel? Confinement, as in
Revelation 12:7-12, is punishment to an angel.)
NAS Mark 9:43 "And if your hand causes you to stumble, cut
it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two
hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
NAS Mark 9:49 "For everyone will be salted with fire.
NAS Luke 3:9 "And also the axe is already laid at the
root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut
down and thrown into the fire."
NAS Luke 3:17 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand to
thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn;
but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
NAS John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is
thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into
the fire, and they are burned.
NAS 1 Corinthians 3:13 each man's work will become evident; for the day
will show it, because it is to be revealed
with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
·NAS 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer
loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire. (Fire: metaphor or literal or a little of
both?)
·NAS James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is
set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire
the course of our life, and is set on
fire by hell. (Metaphorical hell fire.)
NAS 2 Peter 3:7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are
being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of
ungodly men.
NAS Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around
them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went
after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment
of eternal fire.
·NAS Revelation
14:10 he also will drink of the
wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His
anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the
holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
(Exhibition of torment.)
NAS Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up
forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the
beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
Hell
·NAS Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. (The righteous holy God has high standards.)
29 "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell.
·NAS Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
NAS Matthew 18:9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell.
NAS Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel about on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
33 "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell?
NAS Mark 9:43 "And if your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
45 "And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
47 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
·NAS Luke 12:5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
NAS James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.
·NAS 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
Hades
NAS
Matthew 11:23 "And you,
NAS Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it.
NAS
Luke 10:15 "And you,
·NAS Luke 16:23 "And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom. (See “agony” in 16:24 and Acts 2:24.)
NAS Acts 2:27 Because Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades, Nor allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay.
31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay.
NAS Revelation 1:18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
NAS Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. And authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
·NAS Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (“Deeds” and degrees of punishment?)
14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Darkness
NAS Ecclesiastes 11:8 Indeed, if a man should live many years, let him
rejoice in them all, and let him remember the days of darkness, for they shall
be many. Everything that is to come will
be futility. (Punishment of
darkness.)
NAS Job 38:17 "Have the gates of death been revealed to
you? Or have you seen the gates of deep darkness? (God to Job.)
NAS Matthew 8:12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out
into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth."
·NAS Matthew 22:13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind
him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; in that place there
shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
NAS Matthew 25:30 "And cast out the worthless slave into the
outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
·NAS John 3:19 "And this is the judgment, that the light is
come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light;
for their deeds were evil. (It is not
uncommon for unbelievers to express a preference of being eternally apart from
Christians.)
NAS 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned,
but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for
judgment; (Darkness is punishment for
angels used to the light of the third heaven.)
·NAS 2 Peter 2:17 These are springs without water, and mists driven
by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. (Some aspect of
eternal punishment includes darkness.)
NAS Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but
abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for
the judgment of the great day.
··NAS Jude
1:13 wild waves of the sea,
casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black
darkness has been reserved forever.
(Some aspect of eternal punishment includes darkness.)
Gnashing
NAS Matthew 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in
that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
NAS Matthew 13:50 and will cast them into the furnace of fire;
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
·NAS Matthew 22:13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind
him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; in that place
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
NAS Matthew 24:51 and shall cut him in pieces and assign him a
place with the hypocrites; weeping shall be there and the gnashing of teeth.
NAS Matthew 25:30 "And cast out the worthless slave into the
outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
NAS Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
there when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the
kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out.
Sheol
NAS Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your might; for there is no
activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.
Pit
NAS Job 33:18 He keeps back his soul from the pit, And his life
from passing over into Sheol.
NAS Job 33:22 "Then his soul draws near to the pit, And
his life to those who bring death.
NAS Job 33:24 Then let him be gracious to him, and say,
'Deliver him from going down to the pit, I have found a ransom';
NAS Job 33:28 'He has redeemed my soul from going to the pit,
And my life shall see the light.'
NAS Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, That he may
be enlightened with the light of life.
NAS Psalm 28:1 A Psalm of
David. To Thee, O LORD, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, Lest, if
Thou be silent to me, I become like those who go down to the pit.
NAS Psalm 30:3 O LORD, Thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol;
Thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
NAS Psalm 30:9 "What profit is there in my blood, if I go
down to the pit? Will the dust praise Thee? Will it declare Thy faithfulness?
NAS Psalm 103:4 Who redeems your life from the pit; Who crowns
you with lovingkindness and compassion;
NAS Psalm 143:7 Answer me quickly, O LORD, my spirit fails; Do
not hide Thy face from me, Lest I become like those who go down to the pit.
NAS Proverbs 1:12 Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, Even whole,
as those who go down to the pit;
·NAS Isaiah 14:15 "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to
Sheol, To the recesses of the pit. (See Ezekiel 32:23 below.)
·NAS Isaiah 38:17 "Lo, for my
own welfare I had great bitterness; It is Thou who hast kept my soul from
the pit of nothingness, For Thou hast cast all my sins behind Thy back.
NAS Isaiah 38:18 "For Sheol cannot thank Thee, Death cannot
praise Thee; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Thy
faithfulness.
·NAS Ezekiel
32:23 whose graves are set in the
remotest parts of the pit, and her company is round about her grave. All
of them are slain, fallen by the sword, who spread terror in the land of
the living. (Parts of the pit? More separation for the more wicked.)
Sheol with Pit
NAS Job 33:18 He keeps back his soul from the pit, And his life from passing over into Sheol.
NAS Psalm 30:3 O LORD, Thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol; Thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
NAS Proverbs 1:12 Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, Even whole, as those who go down to the pit;
·NAS Isaiah 14:15 "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
·NAS Isaiah 38:18 "For Sheol cannot thank Thee, Death cannot praise Thee; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Thy faithfulness.
NAS Ezekiel 31:16 "I made the nations quake at the sound of its fall when I made it go down to Sheol with those who go down to the pit; and all the well-watered trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, were comforted in the earth beneath.
Torment
·NAS Matthew 8:29 And
behold, they cried out, saying, "What do we have to do with You, Son of
God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (How do you torment an extra- dimensional
spirit creature? A
NAS Mark 5:7 and crying out with a loud voice, he said, "What do
I have to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God,
do not torment me!"
NAS Luke 8:28 And seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and
said in a loud voice, "What do I have to do with You, Jesus, Son of the
Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me."
NAS Luke 16:28 for I have five brothers-- that he may warn them, lest
they also come to this place of torment.'
NAS Revelation 14:10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God,
which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the
presence of the Lamb.
NAS Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his
image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
NAS Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake
of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they
will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Condemnation
NAS Mark 12:40 who devour widows' houses, and for appearance's
sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation."
NAS Luke 20:47 who devour widows' houses, and for appearance's sake
offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation."
·NAS Job 40:8 "Will you
really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified? (God
to Job.)
NAS Proverbs 12:2 A good man will obtain favor from the LORD, But He will
condemn a man who devises evil.
NAS Matthew 12:41 "The men of
NAS Luke 11:32 "The men of
NAS 1 Corinthians
11:32 But when we are judged, we are
disciplined by the Lord in order that we may not be condemned along with the
world.
NAS Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for
the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an
heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
NAS Romans 5:16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the
judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation,
but on the other hand the free gift arose
from many transgressions resulting in justification.
·NAS Romans 5:18 So then as
through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so
through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all
men. (God’s holy standard.)
NAS Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are
in Christ Jesus.
NAS 1 Timothy 3:6 and not a new
convert, lest he become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by
the devil.
NAS Jude 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who
were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn
the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord,
Jesus Christ.
Punishment
NAS Psalm 81:15 "Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to
Him; And their time of punishment would
be forever.
NAS Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life."
NAS 2 Peter 2:9 then the Lord
knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under
punishment for the day of judgment,
NAS Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them,
since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after
strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of
eternal fire.
NAS Isaiah 26:21 For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will
reveal her bloodshed, And will no longer cover her slain.
Miscellaneous
NAS John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is
coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, 29
and shall come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
·NAS Daniel 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince
who stands guard over the sons of
your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never
occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your
people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these
to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
NAS Mark 14:21 "For the Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom
the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have
been good for that man if he had not been born."
NAS Isaiah 45:9 "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'?
NAS Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew
you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' (Eternal separation.)
_______
God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer (Hardcover) by Bart D. Ehrman (Author)
For
renowned Bible scholar Bart Ehrman, the question of
why there is so much suffering in the world is more than a haunting thought. Ehrman's inability to reconcile the claims of faith with
the facts of real life led the former pastor of the
In this sometimes provocative, often pedantic memoir of his own attempts to answer the great theological question about the persistence of evil in the world, Ehrman, a UNC–Chapel Hill religion professor, refuses to accept the standard theological answers.